Save Banasar Fort!
Greetings from Darjeeling,
Save Banasar Fort!
The plight of the Banansar Fort has been vividly brought to light by an article by Mr. Jagmeet Ghuman, now posted on Beacon Online. It is of utmost importance that we come together to do something about it. Ms. Jyoti Thapa Mani requested that a campaign be started to Save Banasar Fort! I beleive this will a go a long way in creating a true Save Banasar Fort Campaign and together we will come up with ways of truly making that a reality.
Regs
Barun
mr.nepali said
am in
JTM said
I am planning to meet up with the ASI Headquarters and the BJP government to start with. How much support do I have for this? It will NOT be political (on GL lines) request but a heritage one. Are any architects willing to offer services to do an asessment of the fort and work out estimate? I shall be making a trip soon to this fort. Anyone wants to visit? From Delhi you have take the Shatabdi(5 hrs) to Kalka (near shimla). After that it is about an hour or so by road. Thank you.
DB said
Dear JTM,
I know this may sound very idiotic but can you provide a brief historical background of this fort? I am thinking this was a Gorkha fort during the times of the wars with the British.
The history of the Gorkhas from your area needs to be highlighted to people like me from the eastern part – Darjeeling, Sikkim and the North-East. We are very ignorant of them.
Thanks for your efforts.
aardee said
JTM I am in…this is another of my msgs which did not get uploaded on 05NOV!
JTM said
Dear DB Kindly read Malaun Fort Revisited on this blog. I ahve also written many other historical articles about the Northwest side here. I do not know if the articles come out under Jyoti Thapa Mani. Barun will have to provide the know how.
I am very happy with your query. Geographically we might be on diffrent locations, but as Gorkhas our history is one.
This is one of the main reasons of my presence on this blog. To establish contact and understanding of each other. Where local politics is concerned that is form the residents to figure it.
Yet I do enter, to correct their perceptions or knowledge about other Gorkhas
Thank you DB
DB said
JTM>
I found the link at
http://beacononline.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/malaun-visited-193-years-later/
The article was a wonderful read. I searched your name and got hold of your articles in this blog which I plan to read, especially the ones from your area.
Regards.
Amit Bhandari said
So I am in too… what can we do…what should we do….? come on people lets discuss on this important issue. i believe that it is important for us to save this fort… lets do something…
patleybaskounpad said
amit bhandari..your sarcasm is so naked that it is not in good taste..( but if you clarify and say that your intentions were not all that negative…boy that would be a relief)
but i think you have to put JTM’s frustration into perspective….it is true when she says that darjeeling folks seldom shift their frame of reference away from the Darjeeling hills..the epicenter of all their political and culture activity is..you guessed it..the Darjeeling hills itself…darjeeling consumes much of their intellectual and emotional energies…but that i guess is inevitable when you look at the profile of the average darjeeling gorkha …he has not traveled very far..he has of course heard that there are gorkhas spread out into faraway places such as bhagsu or doon but does not know where they are…and is not bothered to find out either..
of course contributing to this disconnect are our brethren from the uttaranchals who speak nepali (i.e. when they don’t speak hindi) with such a funny accent that a gorkha will find it difficult to identify with that strange rendition of his mother tongue…
but seriously something must be done to bridge this divide… the BGP is however too elitist a body formed by discredited politicians and others who live in ivory towers to effect any meaningful change in the status quo…
by the way i have no clue where this fort is and why we have to save it when …saving it may mean making a very important symbolic point but that point at the moment is lost on me…and anyway the article says that the origins of the fort are unknown….
DB said
I had heard something about a Gorkha fort from an uncle from Bhagsu. After reading this article it becomes clear that this was a Gorkha fort used in the battle against the British.
I have a question. What is the Indian government’s take on such forts? The existence of the fort proves that this area belonged to Nepal before the British took over. But Nepal is still another country. Is the Indian government ready to accept this and even if it does would it be interested in maintaining it as a historical monument?
aardee said
A joint Indo-Nepal forum should maintain the forts…
aardee said
As a good will gesture and maybe jointly provide materials and manpower to maintain/preserve it…ek misaal kayam ho jayegi on Indo-Nepal shared culture and history…afterall we share Buddha & Sita ji don’t we?
JTM said
Dear DB, there are two forts famous for Gorkha battles. 1) Malaun Fort (Pl read article Malaun Revisited on Beacon). 2)Th e other is Kangra Fort now under the ASI, where the Gorkhas laid seige for 4 years around the fort where inside Katoch Rajput king Sansar Chand 11 had hidden. The seige was a tumultuous period of battles , betrayals for the Gorkha army. History has projected it as a defeat of the gorkhas, but I have reaserched proofs, that we did conquer the fort but could not hold it for long. In some time I will be posting a story with pics soon.
The govt is wary of preserving these forts so as to not to excite the Greater Nepal activists. The GN activists have to realise that they have two choices 1) Fight for GN which will they will never succeed 2)Move the govt of India to preserve the forts as the Gorkha heritage without any political demands.
With the second choice, they will be doing a bigger justice to the history amd memories. Also GN was Gorkha Commander Amar Singh Thapa’s show all the way. No King or PM of Nepal ever vsiited the region for the period of rule. They only wanted Thapa to suck money from the locals and send it to Kathmandu. Which he time and again protested that it was more important to win the hearts of the people in the long run in an era of so mnay battles and possibilities of people changing sides anytime. Which is why they lost in the end also. Nepal lost GN for their own faults and short sightedness and not listening to Thapa;s advices who was on site.
The HImachal Govt also recognises only Amar Singh Thapa and has great respect for him. They do not mention any king of Nepal to this regard. Simply because noone came.
Nepal ought to also remember the greatest military Commander they ever had in Amar Singh Thapa and his great conquest and battles against the British in the region. Nothing else matters any more. Only Amar Singh Thapa’s story. NO GREATER NEPAL. ONLY GREAT GORKHA AMAR SINGH THAPA.
Please key in Gurkha castles in the internet. You will know the Indian governments take on these forts. Himachal govt is much more magnaminous than one thinks. They would have restored the Gorkha heritage if Greater Nepal activists did not make it an political issue.
JTM said
Main significance of the Gorkhas during this period. For the first time the famous kings of the North saw these great warriors whose battle cry was “AYO GORKHALI”, so they were called Gorkhas.
1) Battle of Kangra Fort 1804—1809 (in HP, near Dharamshala)
Round 1) Gorkha commander Amar singh Thapa VS Sansar
Chand Katoch 11
Round 2)Gorkhas Vs Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab
2) Battle of Malaun 1815. (Now in HP)
Gorkha Amar Singh Thapa VS General David Ochterlony.
Significance a) Final battle between Gorkha and British
b) Heroic death of Sardar 72 years old
Bhakte Thapa leading to the motto ‘Kaya
Bhanda Marnu Ramro’
c)Signing of the Treaty of Sugauli 1815
d)Raising of the 1st and 2nd Nasiri
battalions from the disbanded and prisoners of
the Gorkha side. This battalion later became
the FIRST GORKHA RIFLES , beginning of the 11
Gorkha Regiments today.
e)End of Gorkha rule
JTM said
f) Beginning of the Indian Gorkha
ags said
what ever we try to do, our grt politicians will stop it from happening. so whats the point guys?
Pranavesh J. Pradhan said
Jyoti Di, do you have the co-ordinates of the fort?
JTM said
I have some details but frankly now I am thinking who the hell for should I be doing all this work. Let all these forts go to seed. The ‘new Gorkhas’ dont know and dont care. It is better that our heritage and all Gorkhas vanish away in time, because the new found inheritors are not worthy enough. Darjeeling is a disaster and I being being a Gorkha have no qualms about saying so. BG is a Gorkha but born in the wrong place. The land and people he is fighting for are not worth it.
Rajneesh said
Let it be JTM, to tell the truth is like disturbing a hornet’s nest. It seems some differences shall always be there “OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet”.
But this should not deter you in doing what you want to.
JTM said
Dear rajneesh, it will not deter me but for not these people. We are totally different. The Gorkha community has stood the test of time for 200 years despite being in pockets in Dehra Dun, Dharamshala, here and there. Let us see how long this Darj ‘I, me and myself’ Gorkha society will last. Aba sabai hagne-paadne maanchhe haru la joray ra 20 lakh Gorkha ko sankhya batancha iniharu lai darj ma.
Rajneesh said
Maybe they are doing this out of desperation to form GL. BUt its after affects will be visible after GL is formed the in-fighting amongst the so called gorkhas will start.
Pranavesh J. Pradhan said
oh boy!
JTM said
Sumanto Sen’s editorial ‘Time to step in’ says the same thing.
Wny would a Bhutia want to be called a Gorkha rather than a Bhutia? The same for Lepchas, Sherpas, Tibetis and many others? They are all proud of their identity.
I spoke to a Bihari Muslim gentleman who had come in the Gorkha minority rally. He said he recd water only once in a week in his village. With Gl, he has been promised he will get water. After he gets his water, definitely he will revert to being called a Bihari Muslim. He will defintely reject the Gorkha minority tag. He is a proud Mulsim. he wears his skull cap, sports his beard and all the other aspects which identifies him as Muslim from a km away. why would he or his lot be the second fiddle to Gorkhas? Even a dumbo can predict this.
DB said
Let me try to categorize the various Gorkhas in India today.
1. Those who detest calling themselves Gorkhas (a big majority sadly) from any part of India including Darjeeling
2. Darjeelingey Gorkhas who accept themselves as Gorkhas but who may or may not know that there are Gorkhas in other parts of India too (a big percentage here too)
3. Gorkhas residing in various parts of India (Sikkim, West Bengal outside Darjeeling Dt., the North-East, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, and many other states)
4. Gorkhas residing in the cities of India (migrated there for work, studies, etc. – a rapidly growing population)
JTM and Rajneesh> It is not esssential that every Gorkha must think in only one way. We cannot expect them to. What is more important is that he/she is proud to be a Gorkha and be called a Gorkha. That takes away the converts and wannabes like the Bihari chap or for that matter any Tibetan.
There are huge differences between the Gorkhas of Darjeeling and Sikkim though they live so close to each other. But the question is not of who is right or wrong but who is willing to take the cause of the Gorkhas in whatever way possible. We must all strive to do what is best for our community, not look at what others are doing or not doing. If that was the case we, the Darjeelingey Gorkhas, would have so much to say to the Gorkhas of Sikkim in our struggle for Gorkhaland, but we understand their position and keep quiet. When many of our Darjeelingey Gorkhas are not even aware of our history in Darjeeling, it would be impossible for them to know about the Gorkha history from your place. A gradual awareness process has to be brought in rather than fingerpointing at our ignorance. Also, to let you know that your thinking that the Darjeelingey Gorkhas are baathey-laateys is absolutely correct. They may appear to be very knowledgeable but probe deeper and their ignorance is revealed. You will have to bear with us for that.
JTM said
DB Thank you for your comment. Gorkhaland in the right spirit and true unity is important for all of us.
I blame that Subash Ghising for the present mindset of darjeelingers. I blame him also for spending 21 years lording over the DGHC and not having made even a single trip to any other Gokrha centres and or building a body focussed on inter-Gorkha relationship fostering. His myopic, stupid, backward-brain and tribal-jhankri thinking seems to have all also affected the people. He is also responsible for many disgraces to the community. He once took out a procession with old man Ram Singh Thakur in Darj to tom-tom that he wrote the lyrics of jana Gana mana. Everyone was livid at the politicisation of the INA Captain and music maestro. That was no way to present him. Poor Ram Singh Thakur faced immense hatred after that from all who mocked him.
Ghising made the Gorkha Bhavan only for darjeelingers which included every non-Gorkha tribe from darj but no place for Gorkhas from elsewhere. This is to exemplify that he laid the seeds for dividing the Gorkhas in India and making all his non-Nepali tribes into Gorkhas.
He was the one who exploited the name of the Gorkhas to suit himself and his kingdom.
Now time is running out. Bimal Gurung is trying very hard. The Opposition are going to clap on hard very soon. The only way to fight to hold fort was with the Gorkhas getting united. But unfortunately, some darjeelingers feel extra confident by themselves. So these fools who fight with everybody,(Gorkhas and non-Gorkahs) are going to make Bimal Gurung’s task very very difficult.
At the right time prashant also missed a golden opportunity. I dont think he realised the importance of his image for the Gorkha cause. He is as naive and ignorant as the rest of his lot.
I am not angry with people. I am angry at their stupidity especially when the climax of the GL is coming soon.
Darj Gorkhas are a of majority of Tamangs, rais and limboos.
Non-darj Gorkhas are majorly Magars and Gurungs. There are newars too but of the warrior background. The Gorkhas of the North (Uttarkahnd, HP, Jammu and kashmir) are all of defence forces background. So when darj is sneery of defence we find it un-Gorkhalike.
Bauns, Chhetris exist in both areas as they are a non-ethnic-Nepali community.
These factors create a major difference which should have been bridged by this time.
Since ethnic factors do matter in thinking and sharing of a common culture, I take it up otherwise it really does not matter where general life is concerned.
It is by the virtue of a Tamang and akin tribes that Darj cannot respect the Gorkha warrior Hindu communities of magars and Gurungs outside Darj.
Because we do not have Tamangs in our midst, so they as a community which is largely Buddhist, closer in culture to Tibetans and beef-eating is also very alien to us.
Then since we do not have Christians, a community going all over the blog over Hindu-Christian fights with evangelic societies in tow is also non-Gorkha like to us.
These are the cultural and social diffrences and like I said I blame Subhash Ghising for not bridging these gaps for all these decades.
Since darj is demanding GL, the onus is on them to do what they have to do to create a Gorkhaland for all Gorkhas in India.
Gorkhaland only for the sake for Darjeeling and Gorkhas as dictated by darj is NOT GOING TO WORK.
Rajneesh said
I am a Muslim gorkha
I am a Bihari gorkha
I am a Tibbiti gorkha
I am a Sikh gorkha
I am a Kashmiri gorkha
How is this going to work?
patleybaskounpad said
My personal opinion is that the Indian Nepali (or Gorkha) community is a mature and self assured one (unlike say the Tibetans who for understandable reasons have the compulsion to show a facade of unity to the outside world).
So in spite of the rallying around for a separate state , you will always find in it a diversity of opinion and a level of dissent.
Do we need to get worked up about it, or feel ’sad’ since people don’t empathize with ‘our’ notions about what Gorkhas should ‘do’, ‘feel’ or ‘think’?
I don’t think so.
I have many Indian Nepali friends who by religion are muslims(some of them even wear the skull cap), christians and buddhists(some of them tamangs), who pride themselves as gorkhas. But now if we were to go by the opinion of some bloggers they may perhaps not qualify.
Of course their being or not being Gorkhas cannot really be judged by a few self appointed custodians of ‘Gorkha-hood’.
Anyway no matter what people say, Darjeeling and to an extent Sikkim and even Assam are doing quite fine as far as cultural (and now with the GL demand even ‘identity’) issues are concerned.
Every year I get dozens of books in Nepali published from these areas by zealous guardians of the Nepali language. Some of the quality of these works are pedestrian, others slightly thought provoking and a few even great, but the point is there is a voluminous output.
The ‘tesro ayam’ experiments of IB Rai and Co, the poetry of Agam Singh Giri, the satire of Acha Rai Rasik , the mills and boon mush of Prakash Kobid, the hundreds of cassettes and books that are published from Darjeeling hills every year, the plays that are staged (and for this credit should even go to CK Shrestha’s Bhadray Ko Toli,) are testimony to the fact that Gorkha language, culture and tradition is alive and kicking in Darjeeling. In fact day after tomorrow the Sahitya Sammelan Kalimpong will be giving out the Parasmani Pradhan puraskar.
So no matter what naysayers say, I don’t think there is any need to feel frustrated , sad or even angry about Darjeeling and her Gorkhas.
They will be fine no matter what our opinion of them tend to be.
JTM said
The word which fits in for all in Darj is NEPALIS. Or you can customise it to Siano Nepal.
BTW the ‘Gorkha’ Muslim I was referring to was not from the hills but from Bihar. Pl read properly again.
Patley only you can spin a Mils and Boon within a Parasmani Pradhan.
Pl not to forget master Mitra sen Thapa First and only Gorkha to be honoured with a postage stamp from both India and Nepal for Poetry and Performing Arts. Most Darjeelingers do not who he is.
Yr CK shrest does not admit that he was inspired by mitrsen.
Anyway CKS can bring his toli to the North.
DB said
Thanks for your excellent thoughts PBU (#26).
JTM and Rajneesh are probably dismayed by the way the Gorkha community is being “diluted” in Darjeeling with the inclusion of other communities into it. They probably have a pertinent point. One can be a Bihari Indian or a Kashmiri Indian (or even a Tibetan Indian) but can we have a Bihari Gorkha? This is not to deride these communities but to let them be what they truly are – Biharis who live in Gorkhaland and have the rights of Indian citizens in an Indian state (afterall Gorkhaland is not a sovereign country but a state in India). The idea to proclaim all those living in Darjeeling (within the proposed boundaries of Gorkhaland) as Gorkhas is not acceptable to me too. It is an injustice we are doing not only to ourselves but to these communities as well who want to be who they actually are. The concept of Gorkha is not defined by geographical boundaries.
JTM said
THis is a real-life anecdote. (inspired by Comment No 26)
A Punjabi boy went to Ahmedabad in Gujerat to study architecture. It was navratri time. Every night the Gujratis would dress up in all traditional finery and do the dandia dance. Punjabi boy found it all very irresistable and picked up two dandias and began his one, two, three, four steps with the pretty Guju girls. But being a novice and not used to the swaying and intricate movement of which even the Guju boys were adept, he ended up stamping on many a feet and hitting a couple on their heads with the dandias.
Next day, his Guju classmates sneered at him and said ‘You Punjabis, You have no culture. Look at us Gujeratis. We have so much of art and culture. We dance so well’
Punjabi Boy rose to the occasion.
“Throughout history we Punjabis in the North have been continuously fighting off invaders. While you were busy finetuning your Dandia Ras Lilas and the rest.
You had all the time in the world to develop your art and culture because you had US to fend off the hordes of invaders and conquerors from Central Asia from reaching you.
For you’ll to keep on dancing we had to keep fighting.
Now you are saying Punjabis have no culture. Teri to”
JTM said
Just for evrybody’s info.
The British classified the Gorkhas and the Sikhs as the martial races. (based on operations in NWFP, WW1 and WW2)
Amfoi said
The college principal was taking his class one sultry afternoon. A student came late to attend his class. While he about to enter the room, the principal shouted at him, ” Watch your WATCH “, he said.( this happened in Darj)
Amfoi said
Once, it happened so, an education official from Kolkata visited the campus in Darj.He entered one classroom and began to put questions. ” Open the window”, he said to a student. ” Is Kanchanjunga AVAILABLE from here ?” he continued,looking outside the window.
patleybaskounpad said
a newar went to a tibetan’s (‘tibeti’s’ for JTM and company) shop and pointing with his gold rings laden finger asked for the price of this and that…till the Tibetan baring his 36 gold teeth…grimaced ‘pachattar rupiya…’
Hazam said
#31,
After the “watch your watch”…the student “sat on his seat”. The teacher asked him “why are you late for the class?”
The student answered…..”that’s because the class started before I came.”
Pankaj said
Tibeti for JTM and party
Tibetan for Papad uncle
Tibbeettii for dhotis
Bhote for the northeast
Chinese for the rest of indians and pakis.
Refugees for officials.
#34 after “class started before I came” the teacher asked the student to “open the window and let the weather come in”.
Banasar fort is saved now thanks for all your efforts and help.
JTM said
SAYS THEBA ‘It seems Gorkhas to you means all pomp, pageant, ribbons, colours, drums, whistle…but for us in Darjeeling simply put it is an evolved identity of all Nepali Speakers in India including Marwaris, Tibetans, Bhotes, Newars, Magars, Rais, Bengalees, Limbus, Gurungs, Bahuns, Chettris, Kamis, Bhojpuris, Maithilees,Hyolmos, Sherpas, Jirels, Bhujels etc etc etc’
————————————————————
All those against Gorkhaland are making a huge mistake by abusing Nepalis or Gorkhas. As per Darjeelinger Theba and his friends, the target includes all communities mentioned above. So kindly do not take out your venom against Nepalis, Nepalese or Gorkhas.
rasa said
ha nice fort
banasar said
I am wondering .. In search of my name i found one fort
I am banasar working in IBM i never found my name for others till